The race is over, just swear in McCain

[dementedmuppet]

The international observers don't get much press in United States elections. Their observations are not likely to have the same results as those in Kenya.

Unless Obama really ever had a chance at winning.

I am apolitical, but just from logical observation, it does not seem likely the election will have any outcome that differs from tomorrow's GOP primary.

Who seriously believes a woman (especially Hillary) or a black man will be elected?

The Republicans aren't even bothering to spend boku bucks on the campaigns. Are they trying to not snicker in public about the race being over? George W. reincarnate will have a third term.

Could the media hype about recession be a scare tactic to ensure this outcome? Voters were afraid to change horses mid-stream last election because of fears such as the Iraq war. Are voters so daring, they will take a big risk while war still rages & the economy is reportedly in a downturn by electing the first woman or the first black man?

The WASP agenda is a known variable. Will voters be afraid that electing a woman (who cries on TV!!!!) lead to wacky ragging decisions like raise taxes on men because of the income gap & use the funds to pay for health care for poor children?

Or will they elect a black man and find out what revenge may come from 400 years of slavery & a lifetime of discrimination? Some people find him "likable" but does that mean they will risk having him ban the rebel flag?

As I said, I'm apolitical. Just an observer.

[April]

We already had Hillary for prez. You didn't really think Bill was running the country, back then. Did you?

[ÐÊ/¥\ëñTÊÐ/¥\uþþëT]

What fun would that be? She'd cry about nuclear weapons in a meeting with Iran & voters would initiate impeachment proceedings...

Not nearly as interesting as alternative uses for cigars.

What kind of decisions is she going to make about Iraq? It would be interesting to have a female head of state at war. Margaret Thatcher didn't order any child maiming (to my knowledge)

[..Ñøßߥ..]

I missread the topic

Just swear in McBain

I thought you already did that in Califonia? lol

[Knot4Prophet]

While I agree with your conclusion, Mup, the premise is flawed.

Voters were afraid to change horses mid-stream last election because of fears such as the Iraq war.

This is patently false. The voter turnout for the 2000 Election was approximately 101 million people divided almost equally at 47.9% to 48.4% for Republicans and Democrats, respectively. Compare this to a voter turnout in 2004 which broke all historical records, with approximately 122 million people voting, also divided almost evenly again.

Does the highest voter turnout ever substantiate that people were afraid of change? Just the opposite. Does the fact that the votes are divided almost equally support an electorate "afraid to change horses mid-stream"? Most certainly not. Your claims are simply parroting of the hot button slogans from the national news agencies and lack any depth or veracity. No wonder you're apolitical. Good move.

Are voters so daring, they will take a big risk while war still rages & the economy is reportedly in a downturn by electing the first woman or the first black man?

If the economy was in a downturn, voters generally blame the incumbent and vote for change. That's partly what happened to one-termer GHWB. And despite the cries of Republicans about "tax and spend liberals" the budget was balanced by the following Liberal government. Is it balanced now?

And why isn't it time for a black man or a female as president of the United States? You are perpetuating the myth. With a 9.2 trillion dollar debt and increased hatred towards America and its foreign (oil) policies, the real "risk" is in maintaining the status quo.

Will voters be afraid that electing a woman (who cries on TV!!!!) lead to wacky ragging decisions like raise taxes on men because of the income gap & use the funds to pay for health care for poor children?

This is ignorant on multiple levels. A president does not enact legislation - Congress does. The president can block legislation and exercise what limited powers the Executive was granted. Your comments also perpetuate sexism and do nothing to circumvent it.

Or will they elect a black man and find out what revenge may come from 400 years of slavery & a lifetime of discrimination? Some people find him "likable" but does that mean they will risk having him ban the rebel flag?

Again, Presidents do NOT enact legislation.

As I said, I'm apolitical.

Aye, don't quit your day job. All this being said, I do agree that neither Obama nor Hillary are likely to become president. Americans too often use the criteria you promote as their rationale for choosing elected representatives.

[Vladd44]

I completely disagree.

The only thing you got right is the fact that John McCain is going to be the 2008 Republican candidate.

McCain follows a long line of give it to the guy who didn't get it last time mentality. There was a time that McCain claimed the maverick stance with a little credibility. But 7 years of pandering to a guy who smeared him across South Carolina does stain the outlook a bit.

Also considering that maverick is a young man's game, not exactly a part best played by a man in his 70s. I can see Bob Dole working already to get his percentage of the John McCain Viagra ad.

I personally have a really difficult time seeing a republican win in 2008. There is no doubt that euphemisms like economic downturn or slowdown are inadequate to describe the direction we are heading.

There is a reason Iraq is page three news and the economy is #1. The middle class as looked with trepidation for the last couple of years at the direction we are heading.

Stagnant wages that are not competing with rising fuel costs and it's inflationary result have become a double whammy for the middle class. A dollar that continues to weaken in a market where everything is manufactured elsewhere does not help the buying power of American families either.

The housing market was overinflated three years ago but was fueled by low rates and overly generous access to the low interest money.

I just do not see that soup as a good recipe for a republican victory.

I never liked the Clintons, any good words I have to say about them collectively or individually would strictly be thoughts and words uttered after Bush 43 came out of his cocoon and we found out we had a Village Idiot for president.

I do not really have much of an opinion on Obama. I see his appeal, and I cannot deny that a small part of me would be entertained at the idea of him being elected and how it would annoy some people I know just because he is black. But beyond that, my problems stem from significant differences in my personal views and his political views.

Republicans seem to be salivating at the idea of running again Hillary. Personally I think Obama is a weaker candidate simply because I think race bias is stronger than gender bias and numbers. Women outnumber men, whites outnumber blacks.

Having said that, I see either Hillary or Barack beating McCain. If the democrats have shown anything with their primaries it is that both candidates are able to bring new voters not only into their fold, but to actually deliver their vote on election day.

In a perfect world 2008 would run something like this. Bloomberg run Independent with a good southern VP. Ron Paul run and get the Libertarian nomination, McCain hobbles in as the Rep, Hillary get the Dems after a fractured fight with Obama.

The evangelicals and conservatives in the rep party who hate McCain stay home, blacks remain pissed at Clinton primary tactics and stay home. Bloomberg and co siphon off some additional votes.

Final Tally
Ron Paul 27%
Hillary Clinton 25%
John McCain 25%
Michael Bloomberg 23%

OK, so back to reality. When I see McCain, I don't think President McCain, I think Bob Dole Clone.

[ÐÊ/¥\ëñTÊÐ/¥\uþþëT]

Knot:

Under LAW the president does not enact legislation. We've been in undeclared war for years.

The president vetoes legislation. He can veto every bill that is passed (especially with the House and Senate in their current status) until the legislature becomes desperate enough to give in to his demands & pass the legislation he wants in a compromise bill to prevent crises such as SCHIPP shutdown or whatever.

I watched "My name is Bill" on Sesame Street lol

I know how the government is supposed to work. I know how the courts are supposed to work.

Having stood in front of a judge with a copy of a state statute in my hand & having him tell me he doesn't believe it says.... well, WHAT IT SAYS, I have no faith in the executive, legislative, or judicial branches operating according to LAW.

Vladd's fairy tale is more likely.

Regardless, I just wanted to start the thread so that in November, after McCain wins, my "winning lotto numbers" listing on eBay will net mucho dinero

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: As for my crying Hillary remarks, it is tempting to start a poll to find out how many people really want a head of state who cries. REALLY?!

[Debaser]

Let’s hope the black dude wins.
I think you will have a less hostile country then!
Better than the old dude on his death bed or the cow married to that Nazi Bush, surely.

Imagine having a president that can string a sentence together.

Plus it will be two fingers up to the racists there.

[Knot4Prophet]

Knot:

Under LAW the president does not enact legislation. We've been in undeclared war for years.

The president vetoes legislation. He can veto every bill that is passed (especially with the House and Senate in their current status) until the legislature becomes desperate enough to give in to his demands & pass the legislation he wants in a compromise bill to prevent crises such as SCHIPP shutdown or whatever.

Yes, well I already stated in the post you quoted from that the president can "block legistlation" so thanks for reiterating my point. And while the president does have the power to repeatedly block legislation put forth by congress (who represent their constituents - or are supposed to, at least) rarely does it result in the situation to which you portend, i.e. repeated vetoes to the point of gridlock. And so far as this "undeclared war" that is nothing new for the United States. Most of their history of conflicts with other nations have transpired in much the same fashion. And let's not pretend that the Senate did not approve the "Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq" prior to the invasion, providing the Bush Administration with the legal basis for the U.S. invasion. This isn't to say that I agree with the war against Iraq, nor that I agree with the tactics of the Bush Administration, because I do not... but the people of the United States get what they deserve.

I watched "My name is Bill" on Sesame Street lol

Well I watch (and my kids also watch) Schoolhouse Rock which includes much American propaganda. The one in relation here is called "I'm Just A Bill" which was about this poor, lonely bill, sitting there on Capitol Hill, hoping to become a law. The subtle message behind this propaganda was that bills should become laws.

I know how the government is supposed to work. I know how the courts are supposed to work. Having stood in front of a judge with a copy of a state statute in my hand & having him tell me he doesn't believe it says.... well, WHAT IT SAYS, I have no faith in the executive, legislative, or judicial branches operating according to LAW.

By and large, they do work. No system is perfect, but the American system is based on the rule of law. Just because there is some abuse of privilege doesn't mean the entire system is in pandemonium.

Regardless, I just wanted to start the thread so that in November, after McCain wins, my "winning lotto numbers" listing on eBay will net mucho dinero

And thank-you so much, Dem. It's good to see people taking the time to discuss politics and religion here rather than constant personal attacks. I look forward to reading your upcoming posts.

[ÐÊ/¥\ëñTÊÐ/¥\uþþëT]

The president does not enact legislation, but does set policies and nominates appointees. Analysts claim that the stock market even reacts to presidential events (falling at the prospect of a democrat winning, etc)

The statement you made that is most relevant to the outcome of the election was not even made on this thread. That is where you claimed to be surrounded by idiots.

I tried to find the quote made after a prior election where a campaign aide said, in essence, that while the candidate and the campaign workers deplored the level to which their pandering sank, it worked. They appealed to stupidity and the stupid responded by supporting the candidate.

While the posts on this thread by V & Knot contain well reasoned arguments as to how the political system should work, that is not reality. In reality, the masses are idiots and the idiots will decide the outcome as they are herded like sheep by base campaigns. (As in the last 2 elections, the scale will be tipped a little by fraud.)

Currently, Obama leads the polls based on being the candidate who most voters would 'like to have a beer with.'

[dementedmuppet]

Note V's dueling thread about Obama. He's trying to take my eBay customers.

Last night on NPR, a Wisconsin Republican voter stated that for the primary he planned to "vote for the black boy" & would do the same in the general election.

If we lived in a Utopian democracy, the "black boy" who danced on the Ellen DeGeneres show would be prez.

The chick & "black boy" certainly make the events more interesting.

[Vladd44]

No one has talked about the real issues of this election.

If Hillary is elected will we still have to pay a staff to clean the whitehouse?

If Obama is elected will watermelon and fried chicken be declared a national treasure?

Or for that matter of McCain gets it, can we officially declare both the White House and Capitol building Mausoleums, lock congress up and just start paying their family survivors benefits?

[dementedmuppet]

I would say "I like the way you think"

But then I'd have to put up with a dozen posts about sucking up....

So I'll say

How crude! I am stunned and disgusted by your ignorance

[< E >]

< E > walks away whistling yankee doodle dandy ...

[ÐÊ/¥\ëñTÊÐ/¥\uþþëT]

[loveistruth]

No one has talked about the real issues of this election.

Tell me, please, as an outsider to US politics, what happens if McCain has a heart attack and dies on the day before the election?

Can a dead man be elected as President?

[April]

Well I watch (and my kids also watch) Schoolhouse Rock which includes much American propaganda. The one in relation here is called "I'm Just A Bill" which was about this poor, lonely bill, sitting there on Capitol Hill, hoping to become a law. The subtle message behind this propaganda was that bills should become laws.

That would be 30 year old propaganda. Some of the older stuff is much worse.

Think about the cartoons produced during world war 2 that basically said if you didn't eagerly pay income taxes, with a smile, that you were a no good nazi.

[ÐÊ/¥\ëñTÊÐ/¥\uþþëT]

No one has talked about the real issues of this election.

Tell me, please, as an outsider to US politics, what happens if McCain has a heart attack and dies on the day before the election?

Can a dead man be elected as President?

www.google.com

[loveistruth]

No one has talked about the real issues of this election.

Tell me, please, as an outsider to US politics, what happens if McCain has a heart attack and dies on the day before the election?

Can a dead man be elected as President?

www.google.com

Not much the wiser after reading http://islandia.law.yale.edu/amar/lawre ... idents.pdf

but thanks, it was certainly interesting.

Hope it never happens.

[dementedmuppet]

Section 3 of the 20th Amendment provides that if the President-elect dies before his or her term begins, the Vice President-elect becomes President on Inauguration Day and serves for the full term to which the President-elect was elected. The section also provides that if, on Inauguration Day, a president has not been chosen or the President-elect does not qualify for the presidency, the Vice President acts as president until a president is chosen or the President-elect qualifies. Finally, Section 3 allows the Congress to provide by law for cases in which neither a President-elect nor a Vice President-elect is eligible or available to serve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

Death or unsuitability of a candidate

While it is common to think of the electoral votes impersonally, as mere numbers, the college is in fact made up of real people (usually party regulars of the party whose candidate wins each state) with the capacity to adapt to unusual situations. That capacity might be particularly important if, for example, a candidate were to die or become in some other way unsuitable to serve as President or Vice President. Advocates of the current system argue that these electors could then choose a suitable replacement (who would most likely come from the same party of the candidate who won the election) more competently than could the general voting public. Furthermore, the time period during which such a death or the onset of such an unsuitability might call for such an adaptation extends, under the Electoral College system, from before Election Day (many states cannot change ballots at a late stage) until the day the electors vote (the first Monday after the second Wednesday of December).

In the election of 1872, Democratic candidate Horace Greeley did in fact die before the meeting of the electoral college, resulting in Democratic disarray; the electors who were to have voted for Greeley split their votes across several candidates, including three votes cast for the deceased Greeley. However, President Ulysses S. Grant, the Republican incumbent, had already won an absolute majority of electors. Because it was the death of a losing candidate, there was therefore no pressure to agree on a replacement candidate. There has never been a case of a candidate of the winning party dying.

In the election of 1912, after the Republicans had renominated President Taft and Vice President Sherman, Sherman died shortly before the election, too late to change the names on the ballot, thus causing Sherman to be listed posthumously. That ticket finished third behind the Democrats (Woodrow Wilson) and the Progressives (Theodore Roosevelt), and the 8 electoral votes that Sherman would have received were cast for Nicholas M. Butler.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Electoral_College#Death_or_unsuitability_of_a_candidate

[loveistruth]

Section 3 of the 20th Amendment allows . . . the Congress to provide by law for cases in which neither a President-elect nor a Vice President-elect is eligible or available to serve.

Tops. Well explained.

Thank you.

[Vladd44]

I don't see why a dead man cannot be president. We have been electing animated zombies for years.

[April]

Would the American public even notice a difference between a live president and a cardboard cutout of a dead one?

[..Ñøßߥ..]

i thought GW was a cardboard cut out.

[Vladd44]

No cardboard it to thick, Bush is colored cellophane.