Has anybody else noticed...

[DragonRider]

1. All the nay voters on Obama's plan to jump start the economy are Republicans?

2. The Republican Senators haven't came up with a better plan...they are simply against Obama's plan...

3. 11 million jobs have been lost since Bush left office...but it's all Obama's fault...

4. It took Bush 8 years to ruin the economy and people are screaming because Obama hasn't straightened it out in the month that he has been in office...

5. The Bush/Cheney team made a LOT of money off the oilfields while they held office and as soon as they left office the oilfield as well as the stock market took a nose dive...

Now, I'm not pointing any fingers or even giving my implied approval of our new black president...I'm just saying that he deserves a fair chance to screw the country over just like Bush did...times are tough in west Texas...a lot of roughnecks are out of work right now and it's tearing up our local economy...if Obama's plan even slows down the rate of the economy's deterioration then it can only be a good thing...

DAMN I HATE IT WHEN I THINK SOBER !!!

[..Ñøßߥ..]

DAMN I HATE IT WHEN I THINK SOBER !!!

I'm sure its only a 1 time thing

I have to say though i do agree with most of what you say, its taken alot of hard work over a long period of time to screw the economy this bad, Obama needs a fair bit of time to fix it, if he can. I think its fair to say its likely he is the victim of the hype whipped up by the media, i mean by the time he was sworn in he was being portrayed as some sort of god (cue Mando) reality is now hitting home.

If he wants a reality check, i was watching a program on TV last night about the area less than a mile from the White House, Trinidad. Short presidential stroll through that area at night should give him a little flavour of the social and economic issues he faces.

[Vladd44]

#1. We are on the second stimulus package now. The 3/4 of a trillion didn't do the trick.

#2. The 850-950 Billion package won't do the trick either. They are expecting from either 1.25-1.5 return per $1 spent. They should expect something along the lines of 70 cents per dollar of "benefit".

#3. This road will ultimately lead to better than 20 trillion dollars of deficit spending (Not counting previously anticipated deficit spending). I do see some advantages we have over Japan when they tried this in the 1990s, but ultimately the end result will be horrendous debt and a stagnant economy for a long time, decades at least.

#4. The root of this ultimately lies at the inception of the Federal Reserve and began this ill advised monetary policy. While "W" did hasten the spending spree, all he ultimately did was cost us an additional 5-10 years.

#5. Expect "stimulus" spending for at least the next 10 years at current pace.

#6. I would hazard a guess that some point between 3 and 5 years a "super stimulus" package to emerge. Either shortly before or after the next election, most likely before in an effort to jumpstart an Obama reelection which will lack all the sheen and grandeur of the first. Actually having to make decisions is such a bitch.

#7. Buy gold, inflation is inevitable.

#8. Buy bullets.

[Kelvar]

First DR's points;

1. No, 11 Democrats in the house voted nay, 3 Republican Senators voted yea.

2. Cut taxes, not give a rebate, simply let us keep more of our money so the government doesn't waste it.

3. The economy wasn't too good when Bush took office, remember the dot com bubble?

4. 11 millions jobs have not been lost since Bush left office, it's been less than a month. I haven't heard anyone blame Obama for the jobs lost, yet.

5. The stock market was tanking well before the election, let alone Bush leaving office. Oil prices (and gasoline) started falling before the election as well. Hmm, the rich got richer? Amazing. The first time in U.S. history that's happened.

Politicians never deserve a chance, let alone a fair one. Obam, oops, I mean Pelosi's plan will make things worse, not better. The best thing the government can do is nothing, yes it's that simple. Leave us the f**k alone.

Now for Vladd's points;

2. I think 70 cents is overly optimistic.

3. I don't think it will be decades, but I wouldn't take any bets.

4. Replace hasten with continue. 5-10 years is your best guess I assume? I don't think anyone can really say, certainly the economists are clueless.

5 & 6. The current stimulus bill kicks in just in time to help democrats get re-elected to congress, then more after that to help Obama keep the White House. This doesn't preclude more socialist spending under the guise of a stimulus though. Let's just hope it doesn't do what was intended i.e. keep the democrats in control.

8. Seriously, think cases and truckloads.

For the most part I agree with Vladd, just quibbling over the numbers.
Edit- According to a newscast, bullet sales are up 100% since the election.

[..Ñøßߥ..]

Edit- According to a newscast, bullet sales are up 100% since the election.

lol, back to basics, the American way..........

[Kelvar]

lol, back to basics, the American way..........

Yep, when the government forgets who they work for, shoot em and try again.

[Vladd44]

Yeah the 70 cents could easily be optimistic, but when trying to combat numbers like 1.25 or 1.5, I was trying to be optimistic myself

I do expect this to take decades...if we are lucky. Otherwise I would expect a decade or two for us to fall completely apart.

When you consider the over 90 trillion in federal spending mandates that are not even on the radar yet along with the 10 trillion in current federal debt the picture looks a bit bleak.

As this 90 trillion pound gorilla begins to show it's face in the form of a social security deficit in 2017, the show will just be getting ripe.

At present best estimates are we already owe over 7 trillion dollars to the social security fund. The amount needed to cover this will cost be over 250 billion a year in 2020 (Just 11 years away), and over 300 billion annually by 2030.

In 2010, the annual Social Security surpluses Congress has been stealing/borrowing and spending on other programs (off budget) will begin to shrink. From that point on, Congress will have to find other sources to replace the money that it borrows from Social Security or reduce spending (ROFLMGDAA, congress reduce spending..... ) . By 2017 this will amount to $80 billion annually.

Throw the medicare problem on top, and it skewers the issue even more.

So to seriously entertain the US debt, the figure 100 trillion is closer to the truth than 10. Combine that with further weakening of our dollar by it losing relevance with oil and IMO you have a perfect storm.

I must admit, I do not see what is going on as another cyclical ebb of the economy. Many of the events that happened in the second half of last year are situations that plym and I have been expecting several years now. So far our biggest error was that we presumed we had a bit more time than it seems we may. But hopefully outrageous deficit spending will help delay the inevitable for a bit.

I know I have bored nobby with this shit for a while now in PM, at least not the rest of you can suffer as well.

Empires come and go, the USA is no different. I do not think the current government is worth saving, my only fear is that it's dissolution could have catastrophic result.

But I agree, throwing money at the problem is not the answer. It is kind of funny to see the King Canutes throw "free markets" under the bus.

[..Ñøßߥ..]

I know I have bored nobby with this shit for a while now in PM, at least not the rest of you can suffer as well.

As some Americans (V & DR) would have you believe the Yanks kicked the Brits out a couple of hundred years back, this is ofc totally untrue. The Brits were simply playing the long game, let the US build a huge nation, and then go broke, us Brits can then move back in and take charge, its the only sensible solution to the US's problems. I have already warned Knot to keep his land nice and tidy, as it will soon be the site of a holiday home for me. I'm already setting aside £10 for my stealth fighter, 50p for my shiny new Vette and ofc £20 for my winter retreat, commonly known as Texas.

[DragonRider]

I know I have bored nobby with this shit for a while now in PM, at least not the rest of you can suffer as well.

As some Americans (V & DR) would have you believe the Yanks kicked the Brits out a couple of hundred years back, this is ofc totally untrue. The Brits were simply playing the long game, let the US build a huge nation, and then go broke, us Brits can then move back in and take charge, its the only sensible solution to the US's problems. I have already warned Knot to keep his land nice and tidy, as it will soon be the site of a holiday home for me. I'm already setting aside £10 for my stealth fighter, 50p for my shiny new Vette and ofc £20 for my winter retreat, commonly known as Texas.

LMFAO...OFC when the Brits do return to take over again they will send Prince Harry to lead the way...lol...200 years of working towards equal rights in the US will be wiped out by a couple of Prince Harry's racist comments...why just this morning on the news I saw where he called an Afro-English comedian "that black chap", the BBC and the Queen Mum is in shock...LOL

[..Ñøßߥ..]

200 years of working towards equal rights in the US will be wiped out by a couple of Prince Harry's racist comments...why just this morning on the news I saw where he called an Afro-English comedian "that black chap", the BBC and the Queen Mum is in shock...LOL

I have some good news and some bad news for you DR.

1. the Queen Mum died 7 years ago. (you can take her pic down off your bedroom wall now)
2. the BBC shock easily
3. Prince Harry learnt from the best, Prince Phillip ofc.
4. 200 years of hard American work and it cant even cope with a couple of comments from a Brit teenager? I guess you were really bred to serve us.
5. Harry's is army, you would know they have a different way of speaking, he just has trouble remembering which hat he is wearing and when.
6. Wtf is an Afro-English, sounds like a dog breed.

[Canada Joe]

6. Wtf is an Afro-English, sounds like a dog breed.

Think it's the Brit. equivalent of that Ah-Freekin' American they got down there..

[DragonRider]

LMAO...yeah Joe, I noticed the last time that I was in Ontario that you guys seem to have a shortage of Ah-Freekin'-Canadians...how did you get rid of them?

BTW, an Afro-Brit is similar to a sheep dog...over here we call them Coon dogs...LOL

[Canada Joe]

...how did you get rid of them?

Good ol' Mother Nature takes care of us.. it's a wee bit colder here than in Ah-Freekah.